Horseman Pouter Counterfeits

A few years before the Horseman Pouter was introduced here in North America from Scotland a few fanciers on our side of the pond attempted to recreate this fantastic breed of pigeon by making crosses of various breeds of Pouters and non-Pouters. The plan was to make them as close as possible in type and temperament to the genuine Horseman from Scotland.

One of the many crosses that was done was Norwich Cropper x Racing Homer, with some Voorburg thrown in. The basic end result of this formula was a bird that was ¾ Norwich and ¼ Racing Homer. Many believe this is the basic original formula for creating the Horseman in Scotland countless years ago.

This cross was very typy and was an excellent flier but lacked the Horseman temperament. Some of these birds were shown at the major shows and could have fooled the experts.

To this day this cross is being used by some Horseman breeders to add better type and flying ability to their birds. They are called “Horseman Project Birds” which I believe is a good name for them as they are not genuine Horseman Pouters. The real Horseman Pouter is a real and distinct breed of Pigeon from Scotland. But since the genuine Horseman has been imported into the North America, this crossbreed is dissipating in the lofts around America. There is no more use for it.

The second major attempt at recreation was done by crossing Brunner Pouters with different Spanish Pouters such as Rafeño and Laudino. The end result was a bird that was 50% Brunner Pouter and 50% Spanish Pouter. These birds have no Horseman blood in them whatsoever, yet are being offered for sale on the internet as Horseman Pouters.

If you are interested in genuine Horseman Pouters for exhibition or performance, do a complete research on the lineage of the birds offered to you, so you aren’t deceitfully sold these Horseman counterfeits.

I might add that the genuine Scottish Horseman are not just show birds. The main breeders I know put a priority on breeding these birds for temperament, as it’s a big part of the Horseman standard and well should be. Most of the Flyers in Scotland get their working birds from the show breeders because most of the Flyers don’t breed. The genuine Horseman Pouter is both a bird that can be shown and one that can fly and seduce other pigeons as good as the best of them.

The following is a poll I took of some Horseman Flyers in Scotland regarding this very subject:

Question:

I would like to discuss or learn something about Horseman in the UK. Since Horseman have only been in my country for 4 years, we have a lot to learn.

In regards to the Horseman found in the shows in the UK, can offspring from these be used successfully for working if the handler trains them properly? In other words, do they have the correct genetic material to do the job if trained correctly? Or do they need to be out crossed with other breeds of Pigeons/Pouters? Do your flying men get your flying stock from show breeders? And if so, can you fly them as is, or do you need to outcross to other breeds?

Answers:

Doo-Man (Horseman Flyer) #1: "I think even the show birds have got it, they soon learn what a board is when the hoods been over there heads."

Doo-Man #2: "You are right in that most birds can be trained to be a successful thieving pouter but I still prefer to breed from flying birds and fly birds bred from flying birds. They are no use if they look beautiful in the air and in a pen if it has sawdust for brains. Unless it's a hen and is only kept to keep a good doo on the road.

Just my opinion mate

PS I am in a minority as well as I think brains breed's brains.

Doo-Man #3: We have had a couple of Evan's (show birds) which have done pretty well but you only remember the good ones I suppose.

Doo-Man #4: Hi Alan, I have bred a lot of flying Horsemen from both my flying stock and from show stock I have bought from friends in the show fraternity.

In my experience I have had good and bad results from both, what I am aware of is that if a bird has a stealing instinct you normally notice that in the young bird section, as he will steal all the hens and put them in a corner of the loft somewhere. Then you have to hope he has a homing instinct and can return home when he is liberated. Next you have to judge him on his flying and searching ability as its no good if he/she does not search the scheme looking for a mate.

After all that you need to establish how long they can be separated from their mates without being captured by their opposite sex.

In my opinion there is no bird better than a Scottish Horseman it has it all. 18 months ago I would not have had any other breed in my loft, however because I feel some of the Horseman seem to be losing their old thieving abilities I have decided to dabble in a few crosses and see if its fact or fiction that Horsemen crossed are better

I am intrigued to hear more about the training techniques flyers use, as I train some of my hens to respond to me but the cocks, my friend, are on their own or they are sent on holiday.

Doo-Man #5: Consider this, Horsemen have been bred for show in big numbers for a good 20 yrs now, I would suggest that many Doo-Flyers don't realize that they have been flying Horsemen from show breeders for years as many breeders cut the band off old and young birds before sending them to the thieving sport, so in order to judge them collectively you need a broad poll across the city or cities, the poll is flawed if the flyer has unbanded stock and does not know where or how they were bred before they got them. We also overlook how many birds have been taken from the thief sport to be crossed into horsemen to improve a physical trait, therefore unintentionally carrying thieving ability back into horsemen. 8) 8) 8)

Doo-Man #6: I have a NPA doo (show type Scottish Horseman) which is a picture and caught 60 hens at his last pitch